S1E2 | Leaky Roofs, Big Bills, And Bigger Savings

Note: Joshua J. Smith served as Deputy Director of the Federal Bureau of Prisons at the time this interview was recorded.

Leaky roofs and failing alarms create risk and erode trust. Episode 2 shows how stronger facilities and a $2B investment can deliver real improvements, with Justin Thornton explaining why the best fixes come from the people closest to the work.

Transcript

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Why Facilities Matter Now

DepDir Smith 0:09

All right. So Justin, I didn't know I was making you nervous or uh telling you how to prepare for this. What what the reason I wanted to do this is because you know, facilities are important. And you know, our team, the people out in the field they've been struggling. You know it, right? Yes, sir. And it's one of the things I appreciate about you is because you care about it. I mean you you truly do care about it. You know, as I've traveled these facilities now, I don't even know how many I've been in, seeing you know, the some of the the the troubles with our infrastructure, hearing about it for a long time before getting here. And then seeing the resources, some that I believe are coming to be able to help us. But then even some of the few resources we have, how they're spent, how they're doing it. I think that I think our teams out on the front lines need to understand more. I I think they I think they would appreciate it if they're able to understand more. You know what I mean? Yes, they they don't ever get to see one of the criticisms that I had even before getting this job from some of the friends that work in this agency is whatever you do, don't get to central office and just listen to them, right? Get out and see it. So I go on the weekends to these facilities where they can't hide all the mop buckets and and and those things. Um and so it's important, right? How we do it is important. And and I know you have a passion for it, and I just think others should be able to appreciate hearing some of that passion and knowing that there are people that really do care on trying to get this right. Man, I'm glad you came here today. I know that this is not usually the the requirements of somebody in your position to have to do what you do and have to get on camera and be in front of a lot of people. So uh I appreciate your willingness to do so. I think it's important for our people out in the field to get to hear uh from those of us, especially those like you, that are out working very hard and and and taking into consideration some of the challenges that we have as an agency and facilities is a big one. Right? We we've we've had a lot of issues with facilities, and and I know you guys have been trying to stretch a nickel into a dollar for a really long time. I think there's some fair criticism, some unfair criticism, but at the end of the day, people just want to walk around in facilities that don't have leaking roofs and all these other challenges. And so I really appreciate you being willing to discuss this today, uh, to where we can kind of give some of the updates where we're at, and then we'll talk a little bit about where we're going and some of the things that we're doing.

Justin’s Path And Field Realities

DepDir Smith 2:46

So, but let's start off. Tell me a little bit about your history with the agency first and and what brought you into facilities and why you're passionate about it.

Justin Thornton 2:56

Okay, so um I started as a GS5 correctional officer at Hazleton, worked my way up through custody at Hazleton, and then um was fortunate enough to get into facilities. That's what I had previously done um in my uh public work experience. So I came into facilities, um, you know, worked hard through that, ended up promoting to general foreman at Beaumont, Texas, um, in-housed as the complex facility manager at Beaumont, was selected as uh resource section chief over the B and F funding in central office, and then now fortunate enough to be selected as the chief. Um with that, you know, I I was able to see the the hardships that we were facing in the field, you know, I specifically when I I went from a newer institution, Hazleton, to an older institution, Beaumont, and I was able to see, you know, the environment, the the taxing environment that that's in, um, trying to figure out creative ways to uh to fix that place and to to make it more resilient, you know, with all of the weather events and experiences and then the lack of funding that you're given. Um so that's that's where my passion started. And then, you know, I was able to kind of go to a bigger scale when I became the resource chief, you know, trying to to maintain a budget for, you know, all of the locations and and try to keep everything um running smoothly. And then now as the chief, you know, I'm I'm just trying to, you know, I've built a team around me that I mean they're the they're the best in the business and and just trying to figure out new ways outside of the box, you know, that's we haven't really made any crazy technical changes in facilities. You know, we're just making common sense decisions. You know, I mean our little our little thing is would you do this at home? No. Well, then don't do it at work. And that's that's the changes we've made, those minor adjustments. And, you know, I mean it's it's had some some great rewards in the field thus far.

DepDir Smith 4:42

So, you know, the you and I got a chance to be together on a trip and and uh and and that's when I think we were able to connect and be able to talk about facilities. You know, facilities I I've done some developing and construction had a at a construction company and and have been able to to to experience some of those things. A lot different in the free world than government, you know. Government sure does pay a lot more for those things and a little more difficult to deal with on some of the things. A few c government contracts that I've had. And you know, I know that your and your team have been feeling some pressure, but hopefully some joy as well. Uh you know, just what most people don't listen to this know is that just a couple of few weeks ago I took over direct leadership of facilities with you. And and I know that's put you kind of in a difficult situation. Uh I I wanted to make sure that that's done right and we don't have a lot of time. Uh we've got people that need it, and I want to make sure that we're cutting through some bureaucratic levels and and I just wasn't gonna allow there gonna be any distance between you and I. So hopefully you'll forgive me for doing that. Um but but I've had great joy hearing you and your team discuss ideas. From the very first meeting, I went down there, which by the way, I didn't think that was that big of a deal. I just went down an elevator and and walked a few steps. And and and so and greeted by your team so warmly. Um tell me a little bit about how your team's feeling right now, and you can be very candid. You can be honest. I mean, I, you know, again, I want people to know where we're at because we're in transitions trying to figure this thing out.

Cutting Red Tape And Empowering Teams

DepDir Smith 6:24

Um but but let's let's talk about where facilities is right now.

Justin Thornton 6:27

Well, where facilities is right now, ever since that meeting that you came down, um I have a full-time job in the evenings just trying to go through their great ideas that they're giving me. And I mean that when I'll tell you that. You know, I mean I'm I'm dealing with, you know, they're sending me we actually sat down and had had meetings with all of my staff. And all I said was, hey, you know, at the end of this conversation, if you have any regrets about anything you've said, you know, that we've complained about stuff that was done the wrong way your whole career and you had a better way to do it. If you don't bring it forward in this meeting, shame, you know, there's no shame but on yourself after that. So we've had um ideas outside of facilities, inside of facilities, um, and they're just really good, you know, really, really good ideas. And, you know, I mean, I've been trying to siphon a couple of those up to you just because it's so overwhelming. It, you know, it's a good problem to have. You know, I've got so many great ideas, it's it's I have to go through all of them before they come to you. And a lot of it is just with facilities, it's just common sense adjustments that we can make. You know, a lot of that stuff I didn't even bring to your level because I I don't know if anyone's ever, you know, I was actually told that, and it was it was kind of a I took it to heart. Um someone had said, you know, in one of the meetings, like, I've never even had the chance to meet Justin Thornton, but they work in a region, and you know, I mean, I have direct impact to all of their operations, and they've never even had the chance to meet me. And that was like I took that to heart and was able to say, you know, hey, these people are bringing up great ideas. And they said, we've never had the chance to do this. So I mean, we we implemented that was something we did that day is hey, we're gonna do these meetings with everyone at least quarterly, at a minimum quarterly. And um just so we can get these great ideas. You know, I don't want to stop efficiency just because I'm too busy. I mean, I'll work the extra hours, I'll put in the extra time to meet with these people and you know, meet with people in the field and and get to take these good ideas and and implement that action. But that was something we've done, is a lot of the stuff I didn't even bring to your level because it was just such great ideas that required little to no effort. I just implemented them. I mean, we was like, you know, well, there's this piece in policy that, you know, someone put in a hundred years ago and this is why it was put in, but it's just completely impacting our operation. Well, I mean, we're gonna we're evaluating all that stuff and we're gonna change it. I mean, I I fully anticipate a new policy coming out at some point in facilities because it's gonna be taking a lot of that that red tape and all of those extra levels of effort that that we're requiring the field to put in, that's not even necessary. It's just a checkbox for someone at central office. We're gonna cut all that out.

DepDir Smith 8:59

You know what's interesting for me is that I I've learned in business the best ideas are with the people on the front lines or the people that are involved in it. And just because they have construction experience or those things, I I think the only idea I brought to you guys, not really an idea, a new idea, but I just told you I wanted to see more of it, was inmate labor and and them being involved in this. We we have a labor pool that we're not tapping into. No sense in spending millions of dollars, hundreds of millions of dollars, outside here when we have people standing around. I just I and and I've always said I think an idle inmate is the most dangerous inmate that we can have. So how do we do that? How do we teach them a skill? How do we get them to work and and how do we have them busy on something? But uh other than that, I mean, and and we're already doing that to an extent, I just wanted to see more of it. What's been exciting is that I think it's been so long since you guys have been tapped into, and frankly, in this agency, period. You know, one of the most imp powerful emails that that have really just had me uh uh questioning things a little bit is somebody sent me an email and said, uh, sir, for the first time working here in twenty-three years, uh it's the first time I've ever been asked my opinion on something. And I just thought, wow, how sad is that? I mean, we've got a lot of talent in this agency. Just generally untapped. We stuck we're stuck in the same policies, the same ways, the same programs, the the same pol you know, we gotta do it the same structure and don't ask why. And so one of the things I've appreciated about you and your team is you guys have responded. When I challenged you and said, uh no idea off the table. Like I in the business world, I don't get that much excitement. Like it's exciting, but like for you guys, it's been like unleashing these years and decades of experience saying, hey,

Stretching Dollars With Inmate Labor

DepDir Smith 10:52

we can do this. And so I'm just gonna tell you, I'm having fun watching you guys be able to come up with some of these ideas that can stretch these dollars, that can make a sense, and and it being a win all the way around.

Justin Thornton 11:02

Yeah, and I mean, like some of the things that we talked about, you know, using that inmate labor force. I mean, we're looking at upwards of 45% savings on some projects. So, you know, your challenge to me that day was, well, to all of us in facilities was how can we stretch this money beyond what, you know, what its limitations is? You know, the limitations, the two billion. How can we take that two billion with the four billion dollar backlog? How can we take that two billion and make it two and a half billion, make it three billion? And that's the kind of stuff that, you know, my people are focused on every day. You know, they're communicating with, I mean, anybody that'll, that'll, that has any type of involvement in facilities, my people are reaching out, they're they're, you know, turning over every stone, you know, trying to find any way they can. I mean, like I said, that one one component, one little system, 45% savings. You're talking, you know, 200 million or 200 million dollars worth of projects that have a 45% savings potential now, just because of those minor adjustments that we've made. And and we're trying to replicate that savings across all of our systems. That way we can truly, I mean, we've we've even the asphalt program, you know, we've got that back up and going. Um, you know, totally revamping the thing. We're not just trying to, you know, we're trying to rethink things. We're not just trying to give people a an education. You know, we're trying, we're not trying to get people a credential in BOP anymore. You know, we've always like, it's great for these guys to get out, they have an HVAC certificate. But what we're trying to do is we're going to curtail, we've actually been collaborating with RSD. They've been so, so helpful. I mean, amazing towards us about, hey, you tell us where your big ticket projects are. We'll curtail our programs to fit you. So not only they're credentialing an inmate, and then we're giving them their hours. So they're not leaving out of here with a with a with a uh an education. You know, these inmates aren't releasing with just an education. They've already got three, four, five years of of 40-hour week work experience. So these are these are people that, you know, I mean, they they're ready to be hired. They're ready to be supervisors when they get out. So that's that's something we've done. And I mean, the the savings has been um tremendous to what I mean, it was beyond what we even calculated. We've done our market research. Contractors are, I mean, we've told them, hey, you know, we're just we just don't want to use you for the labor. You know, we're gonna use our own people. Contractors are buying in. I mean, our market research, ever everybody. I mean, everybody's everybody's bought into this.

DepDir Smith 13:24

Yeah. You know what I love about it is that, you know, I I'm not really having to do a whole lot other than just say yes and make it easy for those of you that are already doing a great job. And uh, and and and I love being able to play that role in this because we have a lot of other departments that need need to get to yes a lot faster as well. And so I look forward to being able to do it through some of those things. Let's talk about some concrete things that we've already been working on. You know, I I want our frontline staff and and people to see some of the the concrete things that we're talking about. So let's talk about like these power houses or the things that you talked about. How are we doing life safety, fire type? Let's talk through how some of those things we can stretch on those dollars and what that might look like.

Life Safety, Fire Systems, And Training

Justin Thornton 14:11

So um for life safety, you know, I mean, like the fire alarms. That was the first thing. I remember that day I brought that sheet to you and you just started writing all over the first page. I was blown away. It was like my first meeting with you, and I thought, you know, at this point, I don't know how this meeting's gonna go. Like this has been 30 seconds in front of you, and you just wrote all over the sheet of paper I gave you. So I I kind of figured this meeting's gonna go south very quickly. But it actually was the the opposite of that. You said, um, hey, based on this piece of paper, there's gonna be a lot of contractors in this certain area in in fire alarm and fire suppression and and fire alarms, I think what you were was marking up, you know, that's gonna make a lot of money off this. So we just kind of started focusing on that. Um, you know, we've got a a I wouldn't say a concrete plan because, you know, I mean, we're we're still it's still in the making, but we have a we have a plan in place where our staff are gonna get manufacture training, stuff that they need. I mean, we're asking our staff to do stuff with no training and then wondering why, hey, you know, it didn't work out the best way. Well, because we're not investing in our staff. So we're we're getting them like the the highest credential of training that they can get. Um, our inmates. You know, we're not just gonna have inmates out there just doing work at whoever is supervising them that day's direction, you know, the inmates are gonna have training. So we've got contractors coming on site, giving the inmates training. Um, we're talking about like total overhauls of fire alarm systems, using resources that are already. I mean, I know this is something that no matter where you're at in facilities, this would impact you. You know, all the the fiber and all the stuff that's all left over and laying around, we're gonna start using all of that resources to free up some space. So it's like a win on every level across the board. You've got roofing, you know, we're looking at establishing a roofing program. We know, you know, the the efforts originally, you know, they were, they were kind of met with some issues because of tear-off issues, because of things like that. We're curtailing this program to where it's going to address all of the failures of anything we've done previously. We're gonna already have all that addressed. We've talked about the asphalt, and I think the asphalt um program, the way that we're gonna play that out, you know, it's I've even pitched that to people in the field and they're in love with it. Like they're I have I I have people at least once or twice a week begging me to participate, like, hey, let me be the first to be paved. It's not because not only, you know, they're gonna get the pay, but it's because they see the the um the way we're gonna do business, you know, they see that we're gonna have people go out, you're gonna, you're gonna be at this institution, but then whatever institution's after that is actually gonna come to that institution on our dime, we're gonna pay for the travel. Let them see A to Z what needs to happen. So then when they go back to their institution, they already know you're not just getting surprised with the roadway crew, you don't know what the what the requirement is. You've already saw it. You saw it on the last job, you helped work it, and then the next institution will report there. And then once I kind of explained that to people in the field, they were like, oh my gosh, this is this is how we should have been doing it all along. So, you know, we're just trying to adopt those, like I said, just common sense things. You know, that's I mean, I've I've been a contractor my whole life. I mean, that's that's how that's how you run a business on the outside. And we're just trying to make those common sense decisions. You know, I mean, my team up here now, we're all five all prior facility managers, you know. I mean, these guys and gals like they're they're the best. I mean, they've been they've been through the ringer on these institutions. So they know, you know, and it's crazy because in BOP, you know, you always travel through your careers

Roofing, Asphalt, And Rolling Crews

Justin Thornton 17:42

and you get to see different institutions. So they all have this experience from all these different institutions, or they know someone at all of these institutions to be able to kind of see the struggles and to know the situations. And then we just kind of take those lessons learned, you know, from all of these different facility managers and all these different people in the field, and we apply it up here. And and that's the that's the decisions we're making. Um, so you've had, like I said, fire alarm, uh, roofing. We're looking at at mold remediation. We do a lot of work in mold remediation. Um, that was something that I kind of got into at Beaumont. Like, and it's funny, you said it, and I was thinking it when you said it, you said, well, that's a that's a quick way to make some money because nobody wants to do it. It used to be my business. Yeah, and that's exactly. I went and got my certification when I was a Beaumont. Um, I used to tell people, like, I used to hide that certification because it was like once people found out, oh, he's got his, he's got his certification. Like, uh, you know, I became oh, I became mobile at that point. Like, oh, he needs to go here and he needs to go there and he needs to go here. So I always try to keep that a secret because there is such a need in those southern Gulf states. You know, I mean there's there's uh a large environmental impact at those institutions. So we're looking at like an M an environmental crew with an interior repair crew. You know, we're just trying to trying to create some good jobs for people that has promotion potential for them to promote up into, but then still be able to make an impact that is more than what they've ever done in their entire career. I mean, in just a small amount of time with a small amount of projects, they'll have made an impact that bypasses some people's entire careers that they've done. So that's that's the kind of work we're trying to do.

DepDir Smith 19:17

Oh, that's great. And you know, something with the the our staff and our team doesn't know how much we've been working with Unicor and getting this all back uh right. You know, it it's we've got way too many closed factories. Unicorps has operated in uh poor ways in the past. We've not supported BLP, a lot of that working group, and so it's been kind of a a challenge over the years and and we're working on getting that right. I just had a great meeting with Unicor yesterday. And and so we're gonna open up more facilities, we're gonna provide more jobs in in Unicor. It makes sense all the way around, and we're gonna be supportive, we're gonna do that again. Eliminating idleness inside these prisons. It's Important. But I told them yesterday, I said, just so you know, you guys are finally about to have some competition. Because we're adding some positions, some inmate pay positions inside of facilities. And we're gonna have some really good paying inmate pay uh facilities for for facilities. So you guys aren't gonna be the highest paid person anymore. You you guys are gonna have some competition. You're taking all of our good people. That's what I hear from facilities teams all out as I travel. And so facilities, I've heard you, and we're we're fixing that. And uh and so that's one of what we just had a meeting uh the other day. But I want you to talk about, I really like how you've taken that challenge of, you know, I didn't tell you what to do, I just told you let's figure out any nothing's off the table. I don't care, bulk bang, creative bang, whatever we do, inmate labor, whatever it is, I don't want you to think about anything holding you back. I just want you to do it. Like come up with the best ideas. And I really loved what you did. Yeah, I think probably the first week uh you you guys uh under under um when I put you under me, you went out and made something happen. And I just I was really impressed. So tell me what did your team do specifically using Unicore? And and and I know there's gonna be many more examples coming, but tell me about those specific ones.

Justin Thornton 21:19

So um I know the director had done a visit at Hazleton, and um he had uh he had toured the Unicor factory and they were making light posts. And you know, of course, anywhere you go, you're gonna see our light post are in horrible condition. You know, it's just a it's just a heavily impacted thing, you know, with snow, with whatever. And um he had went out and toured that that plant, and they said, you know, he they he liked what they what they had to present. And he told them, hey, you need to get in touch with Justin Thornton. Well, I used to work at Hazleton with all of those staff that's currently running that plant. So of course they picked the phone up and called me. So I told him, I said, hey, you know, let me get a group of people together. You know, I I talked through my team, I said, look, guys, I'm just trying to see

Unicor Partnerships And Cost Savings

Justin Thornton 22:00

if you have any time kind of meaningful input to this. It's a day trip. Let's go down to Hazleton and look around. So called, worked it out with the wardens, went down for a day, um, toured that plant, and and it was it was that unicore factory. It was, it was, it became larger than what it even was. We saw light posts and and we saw a a um we saw Unicore saying, listen, you tell us what you want. If this is not what you want, if you want it done a different way, tell me. So I actually took electricians from the field. I had a couple institutions meet us there. They went out and I said, guys, listen, I'm not even gonna make the decision. This is 100% on y'all. Like, no pressure, but it's on you. If this light pole does not meet your requirements, you just tell them right now. Tell them what you want it to be. And they did. They were candid with them, said, Hey, we need to have this, we need to have that modification. Unicore says, no problem, we'll make it happen. It ended up, it was it was a perfect product that they had produced. So then we started kind of talking amongst ourselves. You know, when I was having a pre uh a conversation before our visit with the Unicore staff, I said, you know, what all kind of stuff can you do with metal? You tell us what you want, we'll do it. So I said, Well, I can tell you, doors. That's a huge problem in BOP, and we pay a lot of money for doors. And there's and it's kind of a monopolized business to where, you know, they can charge what they want to for that. So Unicore says, Well, you tell us the specs, and I'll build a door that meets, you know, anything that you're buying, you know, on the on the uh you know, out in the public. So we gave them all the specs, and and we're looking at a huge cost savings for doors.

DepDir Smith 23:35

So give me an example, what a door costs us now and what door what a door might cost us having Unicore do it.

Justin Thornton 23:41

A door cost us now about $8,500. A door cost us through Unicore. I mean, we're looking, I mean, I I don't wanna I don't wanna price the product before it's done, but they're talking half. Okay. I mean, realistically halfway. And at the same time, you know, we're out there looking at those doors and stuff, or looking, you know, at these poles and talking about these doors. Well, then I have an inmate walk up to me and says, hey, Mr. Thornton, here, look at this, look at this hinge that I made. And I look at it and I'm like, well, you didn't make that. That's something we bought. No, it's the exact same hinge that we buy in bulk. And I mean, like I said, I was a facility manager. You buy hinges all the time, and they're expensive. They're crazy expensive to what you would imagine going to Home Depot and buying a hinge, and then you buy a prison hinge, and it's, you know, I mean, you're talking a hundred, I think it was like $106. They're building them for $55. Wow. So again, and and and I think a lot of the, you know, it's easy for us to say, hey, these are these are great products. We need to do this. But then you have to figure out a way to procure them. That's the next thing. So we immediately went back, hey, contracting, what can we do? You know, we we worked up here with contracting folks up here. They said, hey, you know, we'll just figure out, you know, we'll we'll get you a uh like um you know a blanket agreement, you know, that that you can buy these through your office, you can buy from Unicore, you can procure these. So I just, you know, I just want to eliminate everything I possibly can for the field. Like if there's any extra effort or if there's any red tape they have to go through, I would rather assume that at our office. Let us take that. You know, I don't want them, I don't want them. They do it, it's a whole different world in the field to be running facilities. They don't have, they shouldn't have to deal with all of this other, you know, um paperwork and all this other stuff that's just gonna just gonna push out this procurement even further. So we're just trying to, you know, make these deals, set up the the documentation, set up the purchase path, the vehicle out of our level, and then let them just have a free purchase, you know, to where they can purchase off of that. And they're getting a, again, they're getting a product that is at sometimes half price made by inmates, you know, and again, they're they're keeping these these inmates and these factories in business. But then with what you said with the inmate pay, that's that's huge for us. You know, I mean, I you asked me last week, you know, hey, how quick can you get this policy done? That that's actually I was working on that this morning. It's done. You know, they've already got it done. It's already through. I mean, I haven't like I'm like a week and a half ahead of schedule. Government didn't get to do that much. But it's not that, you know, I'm ahead of schedule, it's the fact that I assigned this person. He actually brought, you know, when you brought it up that day in front of us, he was the one that I assigned to deal

Faster Procurement And Policy Overhauls

Justin Thornton 26:12

with that. And he is so passionate about it. I mean, I see him green all the time, and he's he's working. He and I've even told him, like, hey, you got to cut it off. You can't work after hours. It's it's a week and a half, it's a week and a half ahead of schedule. That's how passionate he is about it. He's already got it done, um, already worked hand in hand with national policy to get it done. So now, I mean, that's something I'm proud of for our facilities folks out there. I mean, I like I said, I know what it's like to get an inmate, get them trained up, and then lose them to another department because they pay three times what we did. We don't have, you know, hopefully here soon we're not gonna have that issue. We're gonna get those those quality inmates that were, you know, skilled, you know, electricians, skilled plumbers, you know, master level, you know, on the outside, we're gonna be employing them in facilities. We don't need them to go to all these other places just because they pay more. We're gonna have that competitive edge with the pay.

DepDir Smith 27:02

You know, the I wasn't gonna talk about this, but I might as well because it's it'll be tough. You know, government doesn't like change. Government likes bureaucracy and all the layers, and and I'm so glad. Like I love hearing you say, hey, I've already made a couple of these decisions, they're just uh not even worth bringing up to you. That's what we need, and that's what I told you. I wanted to to empower you to be able to do. And uh the you know I I I say this all the time. Our facilities people, now that now that I've been out and traveled, there's a lot of our people in certain departments that deserve a lot of praise, a lot of recognition, a lot of awards. Man, facilities is one of those. Uh you know, duct tape and string, or I think they had a different word for it, but seeing them just do so much with so little, it it's it's impressive. And and and and it's also saddening, right? Then I also I dig in deep, as you know, you've gotten to work with me now a little bit. I don't just sit in a meeting and and take from the top. I want to get into the details. And so I've been able to do that now, and and I see how the structure is. And and frankly, I think we can do a lot of improvements there. And so I'll just prepare you, and I'm gonna go ahead and prepare a lot of people out in the field that we're gonna restructure that department. We're gonna restructure it before I'm done with it and and and and give it back. We're gonna restructure that too, we're gonna make it operate better. We're gonna make it uh streamline down to where we're able to get the people in in the field the things they need when they need it. We're not gonna keep putting this responsibility on people that aren't qualified to be able to do it, right? Well, we're asking a lot from our wardens and some of the others to say, hey, here you go, you got this money now, where's the best way to use it? A lot of them, they're not facilities people, right? So they're trying to bet do the best with their budget and those things. We're gonna make sure the facilities get what it needs, and these facilities get what they need as much as we can. Again, we're still still government, we're still hampered by the budget and the money that we have.

Restructuring For Accountability And Speed

DepDir Smith 29:08

By God, we're gonna do the best job that we can with it. And so uh I just think we can improve a lot with our structure. I think we can or how the reporting does and who they report to. We've got a lot of different departments I'm learning. Even accountability is just it's not where it needs to be in those things. And so uh just know, be prepared for that. I hope I hope everybody welcomes it. If not, they'll just get over it and they'll get past that and they'll just they'll they'll operate in a better way afterwards. But I'm assuming you would agree we could do a lot of improvements there.

Justin Thornton 29:42

Yes, sir. Yeah. We um you know, there's a lot of um uh and again frustration, you know, there's there's budget issues, there's um you know, aga again, there's there's just uh at no fault of anyone. It's it's hard to focus on facilities when you're running a correctional institution. And you know, we actually this morning, um, you know, our facilities today is our foundation for tomorrow's mission. That's our new slogan we we implemented this morning. And that's something that I'm appreciative of. You know, we you know, we now, you know, there's always been this um background of facilities. You know, there's always this infrastructure issue, there's always been this backlog. And now, you know, with with um the president's, you know, big, beautiful bill, I mean, there was only two things listed staffing and infrastructure, you know, two billion dollars for infrastructure. So we just appreciate it. I mean, I know I I hear from people, like I said, from the field, from the regions, from central office, from all levels, all grades, you know. I mean, I I know a lot of people everywhere, and I'm getting a lot of phone calls. And, you know, of course, they've they've all heard that facilities was taken over by the deputy director. You know, they're you're the first person that's ever had your had your branch taken over by by the deputy director. So I I guess I hold that, you know, that title proudly right now. And um, but it I think it's uh I think it's just bringing us to the forefront that, you know, you've just in our limited conversations, you know, you've you've taken that commitment to us. You've said, listen, the president takes it serious, Congress is taking it serious, we're gonna take it serious. You we're not a background operation. We're not just, you know, maintenance performing maintenance in the background of an institution. Again, if we and I and I think that's what, you know, you've it's it's really been you know great for me to be able to kind of hear you and then be able to relay that back to my staff is you know, if if facilities aren't working right, you're not gonna have a good running prison. You're not gonna have a a good running education department when your roof's leaking in the middle of GED testing. You're not gonna have, you know, a good running, you know, inmates are getting really, really upset when that and and I remember that. I started as an officer, you know. I mean, I remember what it was like when the showers weren't working. When you were saying it's, hey, it's nine o'clock, it's time for lockdown, and that ice machine doesn't

Facilities As The Institution’s Foundation

Justin Thornton 31:58

work, or or the shower, there's only three showers operable, and you got all these inmates fighting over three showers and you're telling them to lock down, you know, that's when people, you know, have the potential of getting hurt. You know, you have inmates that are upset, you have staff that are just trying to do what they're and they're just in the wrong place at the wrong time. So facilities has such an impact on everybody's operations across the board. And, you know, it's not that we've we've we've just never really been viewed as as a department. And and I don't even know if we've viewed ourselves as a department that had such a huge impact on everyone's, you know, operations and the and the orderly running of the institution. But like I said, we're the foundation of that. I mean, we impact everybody. If we don't, if we're not taking care of our stuff, you know, if we're not doing the best we possibly can, you do have that potential of getting someone hurt or an inmate injured, a staff injured, inmate injured. Um, any kind of emergency could happen. So we're just trying to um trying to change the way we're thinking, you know, not only with with you know, you taking us over, I mean, we're just trying to condition ourselves that, hey, we got to do better ourselves. You know, we want to, we want to do this. This is what we all talk about, but we've never really implemented this from our level, you know, from from the way we think, truly, and we operate our our business. So, I mean, we have again, I'll tell you, it's ownership for us. I mean, we we run the BOP facilities like like we I mean, we run it like it's our own business. I mean, we care about it. I mean, you've got people that that truly are giving everything to to facilities. And, you know, I'm just I'm just happy that the field relays that back. They can see the the progress we're making, and and we like I said, we're not even breaking a sweat yet. We're just getting started. Yeah. No, I I tell you, I'm I'm so excited.

DepDir Smith 33:37

Uh yes, you were the first uh that I took over because again, Congress and the president have made this important, and I just think we should too. I mean when when they give you two billion, and I'm working on the the three billion also pretty uh pretty extensively, but I just think we need to be good stewards of that, and and I think in government we can improve that a lot. I can tell you it's very exciting to be able to work with somebody like you and some of your team to see you rise to the challenge of how do we do this, how do we stretch these dollars, how do we use them the right way, and then how do we get these facilities uh fixed. Our our team out in the field deserve that. Uh it it it's needed to be done, and you guys play such an important role. So I I hope you'll communicate to your team how much they're

Appreciation, Momentum, And Next Steps

DepDir Smith 34:20

appreciated and uh and how much I've just enjoyed seeing those ideas, and I'm looking forward to celebrating those ideas. We're gonna find some of those ideas that are coming up, we're gonna celebrate them in a bigger way than they than they probably even know. I've just learned the best ideas come from the field, and and and I love hearing them from you guys. So thank you for coming on here. Thank you for being willing to be filmed uh and and and share your heart and and passion for this. And thanks for hitting it hard. I know you you hit it hard. You you don't you don't do that government eight hours and and go home. I know it's a sacrifice to your family. You've moved a lot for this agency. And uh and and and though most may never appreciate it or even see it, I just want to tell you it is appreciated. And and so please communicate that to your entire team. We're gonna get this right, we're gonna get facilities lined up right to where it operates in the future much better than it has in the past, and and we're gonna empower those of you uh uh in that agency, in that department, to be able to do a great job. Yes, sir. Thank you very much. Thank you.