Transparency Talks
Dive deep into the power of honesty, openness, and authenticity. The Federal Bureau of Prisons first ever podcast, Transparency Talks, will pull back the curtain on real stories, tough conversations, and the truth behind corrections. Transparency isn’t just a buzzword, it’s a way of life. Join us and discover how clarity can enhance communication and build stronger connections with the public and community partners.
Transparency Talks
S1E11 | Frontline Truth in Federal Corrections
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Note: Joshua J. Smith served as Deputy Director of the Federal Bureau of Prisons at the time this interview was recorded.
Frontline corrections is one of the most misunderstood careers in public service, and that misunderstanding fuels bad narratives about what it takes to keep facilities stable and people safe. We’re joined by Dexter Graham, a correctional officer with more than 20 years in correction. Mandated overtime, extended shifts, missed holidays, and the mental load of walking into a high-stress environment day after day is the life of many correctional workers. In the Federal Bureau of Prisons and across federal corrections, the public often sees sentencing as the end of the story, but for frontline staff, it is the beginning of the work.
We
Transparency With No Prep
Smithare back for another Transparency Talks. And today, I haven't been as excited as for one as I have for this one in a while. You know, we've had a lot of conversations and things, and many have said we want to hear from frontline staff. And we've really tried to use this as an educational piece for different divisions, different things this agency does, some of its responsibilities. And uh but I do believe the frontline uh voice is important. And today we have somebody straight from the front lines. Now, I I want to set this up a little bit so people really understand. You and I don't know each other. No, sir. Is that correct? You know, I called for uh a meeting when I was down at Coleman and I said, I want to hear from influential staff. So I said, I want, I don't care if they like me or don't like me, like the director or don't like director, it doesn't that doesn't matter. Influential voices that others in this agency at that location are listening to. And uh that was how you got there. In fact, uh, you know, when they I I have to go on other leaders compiling that uh that that group. So I asked that group, who are we missing? You guys look around. I I uh before we get started, I want influential voices. And I think you were working the front gate. Yes, I was. Is that right? And I said, Stop, get him down here. And so that's the extent that we've knew each other before today. Is that correct? That's correct. We've never had a conversation before. You and I didn't prep for this. No. I I I've never talked to you on the phone, nothing. Um and so because I think that's important, right? I mean, this this is the goal of transparency. Yes, it is. Uh uh, I I I want people to understand, I think it's probably important for you also, right? Right. You don't want people thinking you're over here prepping for this.
SPEAKER_00This is not prepped. This is not made up.
SmithYeah. And so um I I just want to say, and somebody might go, well, why did I choose you, right? Why did why did I reach out to choose you? Uh so let me just get that out front. Uh one, I really respected how you handled yourself in that meeting. You were challenging and communicative to me, where you didn't hold things back. You also were challenging and communicative to the the other fellow staff. Right. And so I respected that. And and so I just I told the team we got back, I said, that's who needs to come up here uh for this podcast. And so before we get going though, I I want people, and frankly, I want to understand you. I I I didn't research you beforehand, I didn't go through some long process. I I I want to learn uh more about you. I remember you talking about you worked in corrections in Florida, I believe, as well. Um tell me a little about
A Career Built On Legacy
Smithyou. When did you start in corrections? How long have you been in corrections? Uh, where did you go and where are you at now?
SPEAKER_00Well, I've been in corrections over 20 years. Um, I started at the state, uh state of Florida, uh Department of Corrections. Uh, did six years there. Right now I'm working on my 16th year in the Bureau. Um I got into this agency following the footsteps of my dad. My dad worked at the state. He did 19 years before his untimely passing. Um I use that as motivation. I saw the man that my father was, and um, I try to hold that standard. I want the name to mean something. When you say my name, when you say my family's name, it has to mean something. It's creating a legacy.
SmithThat's awesome.
unknownYeah.
SmithWhat drew you to this profession? Was it your father? Was it that he did this, and and you you wanted to to to your yourself be involved in that?
SPEAKER_00It was most definitely my father. Um, before I followed my father's footsteps, I'm a numbers guy. I went to school for accounting. Oh, really? Yes, I did. I went to school for accounting. That was my passion at that time. But you know, just as a child, you grow up into a man. You know, so I grew up into corrections and uh I found my footsteps there. You know, no matter where I'm at, I try to I try to be impactful.
unknownYou know?
SmithSo,
The Sacrifice People Never See
Smithyou know, people often misunderstand corrections, right? Right? Um what do you wish people in regular society knew or understood about corrections?
SPEAKER_00I'm not sure if people will understand corrections and what it takes to do this job, but I'll give you a little insight. The sacrifice, the sacrifice that each individual, no matter what department they work in, the sacrifice that they make to come to this environment on a day in, day in, day out, mandates, long extended hours, holidays, the time you spend away from family and functions, the sacrifice you give, the sacrifice you willingly make. I wish that was understood.
SmithI like what the director says. He he the way he says it is real good. He said, you know, we're playing for, I think he says, an empty stadium every night. Right. Right. Um most people, I mean, it's the person did wrong, they got arrested. Right. They they uh uh went to court, right, got sentenced, good riddance. Right. Whereas that's where it starts for us. Right. I mean, it's it's that's where again uh the the sacrifice that you make and many others make day in and day out. I mean those those days don't end, do they?
SPEAKER_00Every single day. Yeah. Every single day. Yeah. Days when you don't even want to, like you have to find something within you to push to come to work. Because you just some days you just don't have it. Yeah. But when you get there, maybe you have a brother or sister or uh somebody on the side of you just give you that little extra so you can make it happen today. Yeah. Understanding your purpose.
Accountability Defines The Job
SmithYeah. So let's talk about that.
unknownYeah.
SmithWhat does a good correctional officer look like to you?
SPEAKER_00Someone who's accountable. Accountability is uh something I I believe in. I believe in being held accountable and I believe in being accountable. I need to be where I need to be, where on when I need to be there, when I should be there. Accountability. I think it starts there.
SmithYou know, when I was there at uh Coleman, one of the things that I did when I met with you guys, I I asked, you know, I always fill up my book with uh the the questions of the things that that we can do at this level. Right. Right. And um but then there's things that we don't have influence in. Right. As we were talking, one of the things that I appreciated is is you stood up and basically addressed your fellow, you know, team members talking about the local culture there and those things.
Changing Culture Starts With Us
SmithWhy why did you stand up? Why were you so passionate about it? And um I I mean just tell tell me what was behind that.
SPEAKER_00Well, the the passion comes from inside me. Um being someone that I know my fellows uh co-workers respect, you know, that's I take everything into account. That passion that I speak with, it may sometimes sound like frustration, but when I look around that room, when I look around the environment, like I embrace all the pain. I embrace everything that we endure on a day in, day out, and I reflect it back. You know what I mean? Uh it's important because this is where we work. This is home for us. You know what I mean? Uh like I believe higher up supervisors, they can do something as far as changing the culture. But at the end of the day, if we hold ourselves accountable, we can change. We have the power, the ability, and the authority to change that culture. And it starts with being accountable. You know, if I'm working with you, you can hold me accountable. Hey, I'm finna go do this round. I got the top, you got the bottom. Okay, let's go. You know what I mean? Like we can being on time, simple things like being on time to work. If I supposed to be here at eight, it's important to your staff member what time they leave. You know what I mean? We all know what time we got to be there, but what time we're able to leave. So if you're coming in 15 minutes early, you don't know what that just did for that person. You know what I mean? Just being accountable. Um, we could change this culture. I really do believe we could change this culture. I think it's gonna start with it has to start with the individual person from the bottom all the way to the top. I think that energy needs to be felt throughout this agency. Uh I really do. I really do.
SmithWell, I'm gonna tell you, as you talked, I I was uh I I believe the room was moved. I mean, I I believe the room was moved. Look, there's plenty of things that we can do as leaders, right? Uh there's things that you can't do. You you can't change policy, you can't uh dictate certain things. Um uh you don't get to choose who the leaders are. Right. Those are the things that we're held accountable for. And we're we're working on doing a better job uh at that. Right. Uh but what I appreciate about you is you knew that you have to own that culture. I mean, creating a place that people want to work, right? Creating a place that people enjoy work, not just stuck doing their time. You know, I I I tell people as I've traveled now the country, sixty something facilities, we've got certain pockets of places that are really happy. I mean, that you can see there's joy, there's there's things there. And then we've got other pockets that are just miserable. Same job, right? Same work, but just that that difficult, tough culture. Uh and and I I say I feel like they're counting their days down to when they can leave, probably more than the inmates that are in there. Right. Um and and you stood up and changed that. How are the ways that you feel like that staff can take ownership, that that staff can change it? What are some tangible things that you feel like, hey, we could do this and do it better?
SPEAKER_00I think you have to take pride and ownership in what you do. Um if I don't if I don't have pride and ownership in what I do, I'm just not gonna do it. I'm not gonna do it. Um I take full accountability and responsibility every day when I show up. Uh, like for me, I work the front entrance as of right now. Uh I get to meet every staff member that's coming on shelf. Everybody who's coming into that complex, I get to meet them. So I take on the responsibility that I don't know what you're gonna face when you get in there. But while you're in my presence, I'm gonna try to uplift you any way that I can. Now, nobody told me to do that. I took it upon myself. I'm not breaking any rules, but I'm gonna try to, this energy that I have, I'm trying to push it on you so you can go in there and do whatever and face whatever you have to face for that day. I like to meet every staff member. And if I was uh in a supervisory uh position like higher up, the first face you're gonna see is me. I want to set the tempo every day. I stand outside for two hours from 6 a.m. to 8 a.m. I don't go inside, I stand outside and meet everyone from 6 to 8. I would do the same thing if I was leadership. I want I'm gonna set this tempo. I'm not looking for you to set the tempo here. That's gonna be done with me.
SmithI mean, the the the ownership of that matters. Uh I want to get to some things again. You and I haven't talked before this, and I want to make sure that you have a voice. I mean, I uh first I wanted to just thank you for coming up here. I mean, look, uh uh anybody, I I appreciate any staff willing to come up here, be on film, because you know you're gonna take the shots, you know you're gonna, you know, your Facebook warriors, you know, all your, you know, you're you're gonna have uh the the the haters, all that stuff. That's that's gonna be part. But but I can tell you care enough, just like I do, you you're not gonna that's just part of it.
SPEAKER_00Doesn't bother me.
SmithYeah. And so uh but I want to give you a voice to us. I
Appreciation That Lifts Morale
SmithI really do. So what do you feel like that the the frontline staff need the most from us as leadership right now?
SPEAKER_00I think frontline staff need to feel appreciated first tolerated. I think it's a very big difference, and I say that from listening to them. This is not me speaking, I'm speaking in representation of them. I think a lot of frontline staff feel like they're being tolerated but not appreciated. I believe change is here. And I I know just from study that people don't always like change, they like things to stay the same because it's familiar. But when leadership comes, change is coming as well. And some like you said, a change is not something you can always stop, but you have to adjust. You have to be adjustable in this career. I've been in over 20 years and I've had to adjust numerous times. And anyone who's coming in, they have to adjust as well. But as far as this the frontline staff, just to be able to feel appreciated versus tolerated, that'll go a long way. I think that affects it's like a small link in the chain that connects to everything, connects to morale, connects to going that extra mile, doing that extra shift. It it all connects. Like just to feel like I'm important here. I'm I'm I'm somebody here. Our working conditions, which I know you all are well aware of, and been doing a great job in uh implementing change on that. But as far as us locally, as far as to the supervisors like lieutenants, like you're the direct connect to the new staff coming in. So how you treat them, how you speak to them, how we gel with each other, that's the first step. It only goes up from there. But this the like lieutenant area, that's that's your front line. Any new staff coming in, you're their direct. Like this is who I see the most. You know what I mean? So having good leadership from lieutenants all the way up, that really matters.
SmithYou know, the uh while I was there, coming I met, you might have heard I met with the lieutenants and captains of the whole complex. And I've done this now at multiple places, and uh just said basically, I mean, I I like how you address it, I let them know you are who someone views this agency through. They don't get to see many times the captain, they don't get to see wardens, they don't get to see any of those. You have more interaction with a lieutenant than anybody. And we've got some great ones out there. That's what it is. But you can also tell we've got some that shouldn't be in that role. You've got some that were treated pretty rough by the lieutenant that they sat under, and you can tell they're you know imitating that same leadership that that they've seen. So for the first time ever, I I don't know if you're hearing it on the front lines, but we're we're removing people from those positions, uh, I think probably unlike never before done, because we've said you have so much influence in how you treat people and what that does. Right. Um and so the the the um well when we're talking about again, this is what we can do more for you guys. And I and I do appreciate the the the the uh the talk about like hot dogs, hamburgers. I like we've got some people around here that we've just empowered and said, hey, do the employees club. They haven't done it in central office in a long time or not been real active. And man, you see the energy and excitement. I think you guys have a pretty good employees club there. Yes, we do. We pulled up and people wearing outfits. I think actually I think that was the first time I met you, wasn't it? Yes, it was. I always try to get out of the car and and and and shake the person's hand working at the gate because I know most people just pass by you and you know um but and we actually waited. We pulled up, we went, what in the world is going on here? Right, right, right. So it seems like there's an active group. Uh now just being able to participate in those things and and and get those things going. How can we, because I can tell you, Director Marshall and I, we appreciate Front Lines. Right. In fact, you know, as a business person, what I've said is that that is the core. You're never gonna be successful in business if you don't understand you appreciate the people in front lines. But I do know that that has been lacking, uh, we'll just say, in in in government and definitely in this agency. Money, we know, I mean, and and that's something director and I are, I mean, shamelessly pushing for a lot. Right. Uh but I also know you can pay people a lot of money and they won't stay if they're if it's a terrible workplace and those things. So aside from money, is there anything that you would challenge me on to say you can show your appreciation this way? I mean, we're trying to do it with facilities, we're trying to do it with other things. Is there any other way? I don't I don't know what that answer would be, but I just want to make sure I at least get to ask you that.
SPEAKER_00From my standpoint, there's only so much you can do. Like you have a lot of obligations on you. I think it's important on who you choose as leaders. Again, because those people are directly connected. They're they are the influencers on the new generations that's coming in. I think that's very important who is selected, how they're selected uh as leaders. I remember uh when I first met you and I was in that room, um, I asked you in your opinion, what is a leader? I think that's important. It was not for me to for me to tell you what I think a leader is, but it was important for your following,
Getting Honest Frontline Data
SPEAKER_00the people you lead, to hear directly from you what you see as a leader. I think that's important.
SmithHow did you feel about the response?
SPEAKER_00I felt it was I I felt it was a great great response. I wanted to see how the room took it. I'm not worried about me. You know, I think when you get in a place of leadership, is you you lose yourself and you take on the responsibilities and the concerns of others. And that's where I was at with it. So as you were responding, my feelings is out the window. I'm looking around this room and I'm looking every man and woman in their eyes. And I want to see how they respond. Because, you know, some people like when real leadership comes in, uh they act different. You know? And when you leave, then the real shows back up. And that's why I stood up and said, I'm not changing because we got higher authority in the building. You called for me, and this is what you're gonna get. I think people should do the same. I think the information that you receive on your level is very important, but I think it's important on how you receive your information. I think you need true, genuine data. This world right now is running on data, AI, all of this stuff, but how good is it if it's getting false data? So the information that you get up to you, I think it needs to be real, genuine, true from the front line. This is what's going on. So you can make the decisions in in the boardrooms that you're in, so you have the accurate data, the timely data to actually perform on your level.
SmithThe challenge, uh, it's it's interesting. So that that you would make that challenge because when I when it was uh announced that I was going to be uh the the deputy director, news media and all the people, well, then it became public a few days before I was sworn in, and I got several calls from friends that work or have worked in the Bureau of Prisons or retired. And I uh three of the people, it was almost like they talked with each other and and said the same thing. It's like, whatever you do, don't get to central office and just listen to all that. Right. Get out in the field and listen to the people. And and I feel like I would have done that some anyways, but their challenge, I mean, I was out in the facilities my fifth day, fifth and sixth day, Friday and Saturday, I was listening. I filled up books of notes as I've as I've got out and talked to you guys. Um it's the reason that we opened up that email inbox. Right. Over 2,000 emails. Now, a lot of leaders didn't like us doing that, right? Because sometimes, you know, the they've not been used to having to hear that raw, unfiltered things. But it's been so refreshing and and and frankly, educational being able to hear from you guys. And that's why I'm willing to do something like this on a podcast. Well, and um it's the reason I'm willing to get into a room like that with you guys and ask who's who's the people. I don't think most people in the uh across the country know this is what's happening. Right. But uh do you feel like that that me doing that is able to get that real perspective? Do you feel like I'm hearing the real perspective the way that I set it up in that room? Would you say you'd do it better? I mean, I know we removed all local leadership. Is there any advice you'd have for me on that?
SPEAKER_00I think that's a good start. What I really think is Is that because of who you are, you're gonna get certain responses. Um you're gonna get the responses of what I think you want to hear versus what you actually need to hear.
SmithPeople love to just tell you that. Right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So that uh again, I don't like to speak about myself, but I'm just not that kind of person. If you ask me a question, I'm gonna give you that part. Because it's what you need. This is not about who I like. Like, for example, on a low line, on a on a supervisor like lieutenant, it doesn't matter if I like the lieutenant. I need the lieutenant to be able to do their job so we all can make it home at the end of the day. So this is not a light thing. You know what I mean? So the information that I give you when you ask a question, that's very important. That I give you that raw data. You know what I mean? That so you can perform at your level, you know what I mean? So that's I think you did, I think what you were doing is is great. It's kind of like giving the voiceless a voice. And that's that's needed. Uh but at the same time, when you receive so much information, it's kind of hard to tell the real from the fake.
SmithYou know what I mean? You probably remember me saying, hey, listen, don't leave here and go have that conversation. If you're gonna flame us, if you're gonna be have it in here. Right. But but in their defense, I'm also learning, you know, in this agency you've not been able to do that. Right. And and people have paid a paid a price if they speak up. There's been, you know, certain leaders that, you know, again, don't like that. I'm hopeful that we're able to now select leaders that do want to hear that feedback because I believe a leader, I mean, that's how you lead. Um, but I do know that it's been tough. So I'll tell you, kudos to you and and several of the other staff members that have been brave enough, right? I try to remove local leadership when possible. I try to create that safe place um to where people can speak whatever they want, however they want. I tell people if you're respectful, you can say whatever you want, including, I think you heard me say it, including that you don't like me. Right. I'm good with all that. Right. But really, what we need is the honesty, because I can't fix something. Right. I can't improve something if people aren't honest.
SPEAKER_00Especially if you don't even know about it. You know, so uh I appreciate you for offering that. Uh whether, you know, whether it's gonna be good or bad, time will only tell that. So you you you just need the data. You really do. Um I think some people some people want to say something, but they're afraid of what may happen to them. And when you take on leadership, whether you have a title for leadership or whether you're just a person that have influence over others, when you take on that, you have to be willing to also take on that sacrifice. If something is gonna come from this, let it come to me. But you need to hear what you need to hear. And that's that's my assignment. Like, I'm gonna tell you whatever you ask me, I'm gonna tell you the true data from the front line. And whatever comes from it, if it's good or bad, I'm gonna take that. I'm gonna speak what you need to hear. You know, not what I think you want to hear and it'll make me look good. I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that.
SmithTell
Relationships That Keep You Going
Smithme, what has been one of the most rewarding things of your career?
SPEAKER_00One of the most rewarding things of my career has been the relationships I've been able to build through the years. I tell people now, um, I believe you can be wealthy in many ways. You can be wealthy financially, but I also believe you can be wealthy in relationships. And I think that is a lost art today. The wealth of building relationships. Again, it's not about liking. That's a feeling. It's not about liking a person, it's about building this relationship that we both can be efficient and effective in what we do. That's the one of the most rewarding things through these 20 years. There's some people that I've been in contact with that I could truly call my friend. Away from work. Like you can come to my house. We can go out and do this. I can go to your, I know your children's name, you know my children's name, and I met you at work. You know what I mean? There's some people that you don't know my personal life. I'm not gonna give you that opportunity. You know what I mean? You just gotta be real with it. You know what I mean? But um the the wealth of building relationships matter. And it matters to me a great deal. And I I believe that no matter what climate or condition we face in the world, you have to be able to find a way to be effective. No matter what the circumstances are, no matter what you are facing, find a way to be effective.
SmithWhat
Advice For New Officers
Smithadvice would you have for that young correctional officer coming in, that young Dexter coming in, uh that that that's that's in their first little bit, or even considering a role in corrections. What advice would you have for them?
SPEAKER_00Understand that you're getting into a changing beast. This is a beast. Uh this this profession. Um when I first came in, I was told that this profession will change you whether you want to or not, whether you realize it or not. Um, if you have a hobby, to do it and do it often. I was told that like my first day in IF, and I was like, What in the world are you talking about? I got six years' experience already of correction, but I'm like, what is she talking about? If you have a hobby, do it and do it often. Now I'm an older dexter. Looking back at that moment, I understand what she was talking about. I understand totally what she was talking about. I would tell the new staff to prepare your mind, prepare your body. It takes a lot to take on this uniform, but you have to take this on proudly. Take this uniform on proudly, wear it proudly, stand upright, and understand you have a career, not a job. This can be a rewarding career if you allow it. Understand that you do have someone to your left. You have someone to your right that's dependent on you. Not just your family at home, but the person to your left and your right is depending on you to come to work and do your job. Know your job, learn your job first. Before you can do your job, you gotta learn your job. Take that book and read it. Well, after you get through reading, use your eyes and look around, find someone who you believe is a good example, and then go pick that person's brain. Ask some questions. Well, how did you last so long? How did you make it 15 years? You've been at a pen for 15 years? How do you do it? What do you see when you look in a unit? What do you see when you look at a rec yard? Ask questions. There's no such thing as a dumb question. Ask the questions because even with all the years of experience I have in, I still need you as that new inexperience, maybe no correctional background, maybe no law enforcement, no military. I still need you to make it home.
SmithSo let me ask you this: as we're getting closer to the end, I want to make sure, again, you get to voice whatever, you get to say whatever.
Feel The Staff And Turn The Ship
SmithI mean, this is transparency talks. I know most people think it's not, they're gonna swear you and I have talked before. Um, but I think it's important because your voice and the frontline voice matters. Again, I've told you we've worked hard to try to get that. Is there any, I just want to ask you this for you. Is there any question you wish I would ask you? If there is there is there anything you wish you could share? Uh something you could challenge, and and there's there's nothing off the table. There's there's you know, there's no restrictions in this. Anything you would like to voice or you wish that I would have asked you that I didn't?
SPEAKER_00I don't know if it's a certain question that I would wish you would ask me, but I think if I would have an opportunity, I think my assignment here would be for to let you know that the staff is relying on you. I I would want you to understand, I would want you to actually feel what the staff that you lead is is dealing with um mentally. You know, a lot of times we take this stuff home and it affects us, you know. I I'm sure you're aware of uh, you know, suicide rates between officers, um, the death we've been having as officers. I like I said, I've been over 20 years and I've never seen it to this level. Um I I would want you to feel the staff. I would want you to feel the staff so you can so when when you step, because I know you you you take pride and ownership, even as a businessman. I I understand you take pride and ownership in what you do. And you wouldn't take it on if you didn't feel like you can create change. So I would want you to feel the staff, the and what what they're enduring. So it's not about me. I told you first time, like this is I'm good. No matter what comes my way, I'm gonna be all right. But for the body, everybody, everybody, case managers, counselors, lieutenants, captains, wardens, everyone who listens to you, I want you to feel them. You know what I mean? Like what they endure. You know what I mean? So when you get ready to make your decisions, or when you go into the boardrooms and you have this data in front of you, not only do you have these words on the paper or these numbers uh from the budgeting and stuff like that on the paper, but you also have the feeling. You have you have that endurance. You you have it. You um you you're in touch with the people. And I understand you, like I said, you like you're only one man and you have a high role and you have to be here, you have to be there. That's why I say I think it's important who you select as leaders, because those people are sending you information. And you need that information to be as truthful as possible so you can go in there and do your job. I think, I think you're gonna be all right. Uh, like you said, I'm on I'm understanding that social media people are gonna feel good and blase blasey blase. I'm not worried about none of that. I'm here to deliver a message, and I want you to actually feel those staff that you lead. I really do. I want you to feel those staff that you lead because we hear, uh, you see the messages, and we and people want change. People want change. I believe you've seen that when you came. People are ready for change. But like I said, this is this is not a boat. You know, this is a ship you're trying to turn. And you can't just turn this thing like how you want to. Sometimes you gotta put some muscle into it. You know what I mean? This is a ship, not a boat. And it's gonna take you, and it's gonna take the support of everyone under you to help turn this ship. That's why it's important for each one of us to take accountability because all of us, you need all of our strength to turn this ship. We're not operating a boat. Like you said, I've been I've been watching, I've been paying attention. This agency has been rated the worst for so long. And and I, for one, it's time for change. It's time for change. The BOP should not be the worst. And and if I had anything to do about it, it will not be the worst. So I stand and support anyone above me that's making decisions. Let's do it together. Let's turn this ship together. You don't have enough strength to turn it by yourself. You need everybody. And anybody who's not willing to put their strength in to turn this ship, you know what you can do. Because there's people out here risking our lives to help turn this ship. We want to be proud where we work. I I tell people, wherever you come from, you can be proud of that. But right now you're at FCC Coleman. I am proud to be a staff member of almost 16 years of FCC Coleman. And I want everybody who comes to FCC Coleman to feel proud that you are a staff member at LCC Coleman, that you can help initiate change right there at FCC Coleman. Find something to do. Give your time.
SmithYou know, something that I say as I'm out there is that uh Director Marshall and I are two people. All we can try to do is create the environment. We can't change it without everybody wanting to be all the same, going in the same direction. It's not gonna happen.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SmithI I I I just want to tell you, I I hear you. And I'll never know what it's like to do what you do or to to do what the correctional officers, this agency does. My past experiences doesn't give me that ability to understand that. Uh it's just and until you've done it, you can't know. Right. I do want you to know that as I've traveled this country, I've you can probably take in this entire agency the top five people that have visited more prisons than I've visited more than all of them, probably combined. And uh it's I I'll tell you, conversations like this are very motivational to me because these are the things that we're responsible for. Right? You know, I remember going in on a total surprise visit, no team, didn't take anybody. In fact, I told my team I wasn't going anywhere, uh, and then I I rolled in on a Saturday. I remember going to a uh um a complex and I saw a staff member as I was talking to him, I could just tell there's nothing there left. Tired, beat down. I don't know what mandate he was on for that week. I see the emails that come in people frustrated, missing their games because sometimes their family because another staff member chose to call in and stay with theirs. Again, no right, wrong, just uh just it is. Right. And and so I I just for what it's worth, I want you to know it's it's why I'm taking so serious uh the rebuild of our HR. Right. To be able to get people on boarded and things operating and moving right, um, getting the right leaders. You know, for the first time ever, we're interviewing wardens. Right. That's didn't happen. I don't know how that didn't happen before. Right. So we're we're at least working on those things. And I appreciate somebody like you willing to not just challenge it, but also be a part of the solution. Oh, yeah. We can all stand on the other side and just complain and complain, complain, but but then really what can any new leaders come in and change if all you're gonna do is just stand in opposition day one. I mean, there's been people that have opposed us day one, doesn't matter, they don't know us, they're just gonna oppose it. And so I appreciate you being the person that says, I'm gonna challenge you, I'm gonna give you the information you need to have, but I'm also willing to roll up my sleeves and work beside you as as as you're doing that stuff. So I I'm just I'm I'm gonna end uh with this. I I just I I'm gonna thank you because again, standing up in those rooms, you are a leader around Coleman, whether your position is that way. That's that's uh or not. That's why I've met with so many of you influential voices. And frankly, it's again people like you in this agency that inspire me to help me know, hey, we've got to get this thing right. We've got to be able to do better, we've got to do be able to do it well. Uh and and and you're 20 years in corrections. You and you can see it, you can feel it. That this people don't understand that have not been around this, the sacrifice. If they did, if our society did understand it, they would invest more in it. Right. They would, Congress would support it more, um people would understand the sacrifice, but they don't, okay? They don't.
SPEAKER_00I tell people perspective matters. Two people can be standing side by side looking at the exact same thing, but have two different perspectives on what they see. One can see, look at FCC, they can look at the BOP, I'm gonna tell FCC out. They can look at the BOP and say, man, the BOP is messed up. Man, the BOP is this, that, and the other, all these negative things. But the person right beside him could say, BOP does have his issues. But I see opportunity. That's what I see. Uh I tell people sometimes in the real world, some of the best business you can start you can start is find a problem and become the solution.
SmithYou know, they say you can make excuses or you can make a difference, you just can't make both. Right. And uh I think that as I've said, we're working, Director Marshall and I are working hard to tell that story, but we've got to have a good story to tell. Yes, sir. That's gonna take all of us to be able to do it. Um thank you. Thanks for coming up. Thanks for being willing to, you know, amongst all your peers, I'm sure is gonna be, you'll be the the talked-about conversation down there. Thanks for being willing to take the heat and and and other things that come with it. I think you've represented those in your profession and those in this agency extremely well. And uh it people like you and and the others that I've met down at Coleman, I'm excited. It's it's funny as I talk to people about my excitement about the things going down at Coleman, even agency people are going, what? Down at Coleman? What what are you talking about? And I'm going, oh no, y'all just wait. Y'all y'all are gonna see some things. And I can say that about several other places right now because we're empowering people, we're giving this voice, we're we're able to listen and learn and and and be able to put people in the right places. So uh thank you for coming on. I I I really appreciate you appreciate what you do for this agency, and I look forward to seeing how it progresses. Now we can be able to talk a little bit more. That's right. And and I look forward to hearing the things that are going on down there.
SPEAKER_00Thank you for this opportunity.
SmithThank you.
